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2010.04.22 (14:11:35)
Paul Kyoo-Won Kim of FIRA Headquarters, KAIST, Korea interviewed Professor Man-Wook Han of Vienna University of Technology, Austria on the brand new FIRA MiroSot Large League 11vs.11. Here is what Prof. Han has to say on the big league.
Q: Prof. Han, you are the leading FIRA committee member who have been worked on FIRA MiroSot Large League(11Vs11) to develop the rule of largest league of the MiroSot Category ever. Do you have any comment on this newly developing rule of MiroSot Large League, please?
A: For now, nobody can clearly expect any firm result from the newly developing 11vs.11 league. There will be a lot of unforeseen problems we might overlook. 11 robots may fall in a state of disorder in the worst case. Also, the judge of the large league will experience such a hard time to catch up with fast moving 22 robots. The situation may drives a judge's mind so chaotic. How many teams can participate? I say, actually, how many teams can afford this vast number of robots and enlarged playground...? Well~, I'm not sure. How many Korean teams can participate on this league...? How many European teams can participate for this large league...? We will see how many teams will register for this large league competition of FIRA Robot World Cup Korea 2004.
Q: What motivated FIRA to develop this 11vs.11 Large league?
A: Developing of 11vs.11 league was prompted by the size of human soccer game, the real soccer is consisted of 11 team members, and we also need to overcome the technical challenge of controlling vast number robots in a largely sized play ground.
For making a Multi-Agent System in the true sense of the term, we need to build networked robot systems that can cooperate and pass the ball to each other in the mean of cooperative work. We also need to develop such a well thought out algorithms for effective obstacle avoidance while they play.
Q: What advice can you tell to the 5vs.5 League teams and 7vs.7 League teams who are willing to upgrade to 11vs.11 Large League?
A: Many teams might have daunted for the enlarged size of the play ground and number of robots to control, but it is surely feasible to implement a such systems. I reflect on the 2002 FIRA European Cup. At that time, the 5vs.5 League was newly introduced and majority of the participating teams had to give their first try for the new 5vs.5 league competition even without preparing a 5vs.5 play ground in their lab before they come. Nevertheless, the actual outcome for the 5vs.5 league was excellent. In fact, the vision system will be the main technical challenge to upgrade a team’s system to 11vs.11 system. I think, teams of participating 7vs.7 league of last year FIRA Robot World Cup Austria will not face to any crucial technical difficulties. If I have to say, because the double sized playground they have to change fixed X.Y axis point on the playground and most importantly, teams need to develop a new strategy to combine dual inputted camera information on a multiple PC. After of all, implementing a smart vision set is the most crucial part of technical mission for this new large league. However, all of these facts won’t throw us into the edge of technical limitation, but can be solved by applying one’s well thought out ideas and some time spending.
Q: What will be the significance of the introducing this 11vs.11 Large league to the FIRA Robot World Cup Korea 2004?
A: Most of all, this large sized competition will brings FIRA spectators a spectacle looking robot soccer game. Also, this enlarged playground and practically same number of robots comparing with the real human soccer will induce great PR effect. As the number of robots increased, robots need to perform more tight cooperation and development of better strategy on managing vision, communication and robot control is critical. . In this sense, I want to promote playing existing MiroSot League competitions on a step bigger playground, for instance, playing 5vs.5 on 7vs.7 playground.
Q: Prof. Han, What can be the big difference for this new large league rule from that of existing MiroSot Leagues such as 3vs.3 or 5vs.5 Leagues, if any?
A: They are quite similar, but we have added some new free kick rules to enhance the set play of the robot soccer. These are some different points from existing league rules.
In each side, the maximum number of the robot is 11. One goalkeeper, five defending and five attacking robot. But, in the center circle area which is light blue part of playground diagram below, maximum 8 robots are allowed to position. The number of robots on each side will be limited to five without goalkeeper. In case attacking and defending the numbers of robot of each team may not exceed five robots own as well as opponent area. It means the maximum possible number of robots in one side is 11, five attacking robots, for example, yellow team and one goalkeeper and five defending robots. But for the conversion from defending and attacking vice versa, in the area of the center which is light blue part of the diagram, 8 robots of each team are allowed.
Other free kick conditions are such as these. More than two robots from the same team block the ball, more than 10 seconds. One robot blocks the ball without any external contact with other robots. More than four robots including goalkeeper robot are locating in Penalty area.
Q: I know many teams are wondering and waiting on playground spec. As you have been discussed with FIRA Headquarters on the issue, what will be the main material and size of the large league playground and when will FIRA HQ release the official rule for 11vs.11 league?
A: The size of 11vs.11 Large League playground will be 440cm x 280cm. The material will be wood, which is the same as that of the existing MiroSot leagues. However, because of the vast size of the playground, the playground will be divided by 4 parts for transferability and keeping. Teams will need to pay a good attention to the joint lines of the 4 parts. In fact, at the beginning of the process to select a suitable material for the new playground, FIRA HQ and I were seriously considered to use rubber material for the flexibility and to eliminate joint sill, but overall, to maintain the unique features of MiroSot’s fast and dynamic movement, we have concluded with wooden material other than rubber material. Maintaining the dynamic speedy movement will be an unavoidable trade off for the transferability and gripping friction of rubber.
Q: What can FIRA HeadQuarters do for better implementation of this big league?
A: Well, for a technical aspect, so far we have experienced problems with using color patches for each team and robots. I think FIRA HQ can decide and make an official color set of patches, so FIRA HQ can officially dispatch official color set of uniforms of FIRA soccer robots for every official competition. One more thing is installation of team’s cameras. Because of the different specs of each team’s camera and lens, the location of camera installation is varying. I think, it is a good idea FIRA HQ to guide a certain up-down limit of installation height.
Q: Prof. Han, lastly, as FIRA is introducing this vast size of new MiroSot League, what will be the future direction of FRIA robot soccer?
A: I believe the right future direction for the FIRA robot soccer is developing more of stand alone fully autonomous soccer robot system categories. But with current stage of technical resources, it is not feasible to satisfy both conditions, smart and fast. That’s why we, FIRA have adapted global vision system for our MiroSot system’s fast and dynamic movement. However, considering continues advancement of FIRA robot soccer, we need to research and prepare stand alone fully autonomous robot soccer systems that FIRA can advance with, so we can get closer to satisfy the both condition with smaller trade offs in terms of engineering aspect. That’s what we people of robotics have to do. I expect more of challenging ideas from FIRA people on this matter.
Are you ready to dig it?
please refer to the pictures below for large league playground sample
Q: Prof. Han, you are the leading FIRA committee member who have been worked on FIRA MiroSot Large League(11Vs11) to develop the rule of largest league of the MiroSot Category ever. Do you have any comment on this newly developing rule of MiroSot Large League, please?
A: For now, nobody can clearly expect any firm result from the newly developing 11vs.11 league. There will be a lot of unforeseen problems we might overlook. 11 robots may fall in a state of disorder in the worst case. Also, the judge of the large league will experience such a hard time to catch up with fast moving 22 robots. The situation may drives a judge's mind so chaotic. How many teams can participate? I say, actually, how many teams can afford this vast number of robots and enlarged playground...? Well~, I'm not sure. How many Korean teams can participate on this league...? How many European teams can participate for this large league...? We will see how many teams will register for this large league competition of FIRA Robot World Cup Korea 2004.
Q: What motivated FIRA to develop this 11vs.11 Large league?
A: Developing of 11vs.11 league was prompted by the size of human soccer game, the real soccer is consisted of 11 team members, and we also need to overcome the technical challenge of controlling vast number robots in a largely sized play ground.
For making a Multi-Agent System in the true sense of the term, we need to build networked robot systems that can cooperate and pass the ball to each other in the mean of cooperative work. We also need to develop such a well thought out algorithms for effective obstacle avoidance while they play.
Q: What advice can you tell to the 5vs.5 League teams and 7vs.7 League teams who are willing to upgrade to 11vs.11 Large League?
A: Many teams might have daunted for the enlarged size of the play ground and number of robots to control, but it is surely feasible to implement a such systems. I reflect on the 2002 FIRA European Cup. At that time, the 5vs.5 League was newly introduced and majority of the participating teams had to give their first try for the new 5vs.5 league competition even without preparing a 5vs.5 play ground in their lab before they come. Nevertheless, the actual outcome for the 5vs.5 league was excellent. In fact, the vision system will be the main technical challenge to upgrade a team’s system to 11vs.11 system. I think, teams of participating 7vs.7 league of last year FIRA Robot World Cup Austria will not face to any crucial technical difficulties. If I have to say, because the double sized playground they have to change fixed X.Y axis point on the playground and most importantly, teams need to develop a new strategy to combine dual inputted camera information on a multiple PC. After of all, implementing a smart vision set is the most crucial part of technical mission for this new large league. However, all of these facts won’t throw us into the edge of technical limitation, but can be solved by applying one’s well thought out ideas and some time spending.
Q: What will be the significance of the introducing this 11vs.11 Large league to the FIRA Robot World Cup Korea 2004?
A: Most of all, this large sized competition will brings FIRA spectators a spectacle looking robot soccer game. Also, this enlarged playground and practically same number of robots comparing with the real human soccer will induce great PR effect. As the number of robots increased, robots need to perform more tight cooperation and development of better strategy on managing vision, communication and robot control is critical. . In this sense, I want to promote playing existing MiroSot League competitions on a step bigger playground, for instance, playing 5vs.5 on 7vs.7 playground.
Q: Prof. Han, What can be the big difference for this new large league rule from that of existing MiroSot Leagues such as 3vs.3 or 5vs.5 Leagues, if any?
A: They are quite similar, but we have added some new free kick rules to enhance the set play of the robot soccer. These are some different points from existing league rules.
In each side, the maximum number of the robot is 11. One goalkeeper, five defending and five attacking robot. But, in the center circle area which is light blue part of playground diagram below, maximum 8 robots are allowed to position. The number of robots on each side will be limited to five without goalkeeper. In case attacking and defending the numbers of robot of each team may not exceed five robots own as well as opponent area. It means the maximum possible number of robots in one side is 11, five attacking robots, for example, yellow team and one goalkeeper and five defending robots. But for the conversion from defending and attacking vice versa, in the area of the center which is light blue part of the diagram, 8 robots of each team are allowed.
Other free kick conditions are such as these. More than two robots from the same team block the ball, more than 10 seconds. One robot blocks the ball without any external contact with other robots. More than four robots including goalkeeper robot are locating in Penalty area.
Q: I know many teams are wondering and waiting on playground spec. As you have been discussed with FIRA Headquarters on the issue, what will be the main material and size of the large league playground and when will FIRA HQ release the official rule for 11vs.11 league?
A: The size of 11vs.11 Large League playground will be 440cm x 280cm. The material will be wood, which is the same as that of the existing MiroSot leagues. However, because of the vast size of the playground, the playground will be divided by 4 parts for transferability and keeping. Teams will need to pay a good attention to the joint lines of the 4 parts. In fact, at the beginning of the process to select a suitable material for the new playground, FIRA HQ and I were seriously considered to use rubber material for the flexibility and to eliminate joint sill, but overall, to maintain the unique features of MiroSot’s fast and dynamic movement, we have concluded with wooden material other than rubber material. Maintaining the dynamic speedy movement will be an unavoidable trade off for the transferability and gripping friction of rubber.
Q: What can FIRA HeadQuarters do for better implementation of this big league?
A: Well, for a technical aspect, so far we have experienced problems with using color patches for each team and robots. I think FIRA HQ can decide and make an official color set of patches, so FIRA HQ can officially dispatch official color set of uniforms of FIRA soccer robots for every official competition. One more thing is installation of team’s cameras. Because of the different specs of each team’s camera and lens, the location of camera installation is varying. I think, it is a good idea FIRA HQ to guide a certain up-down limit of installation height.
Q: Prof. Han, lastly, as FIRA is introducing this vast size of new MiroSot League, what will be the future direction of FRIA robot soccer?
A: I believe the right future direction for the FIRA robot soccer is developing more of stand alone fully autonomous soccer robot system categories. But with current stage of technical resources, it is not feasible to satisfy both conditions, smart and fast. That’s why we, FIRA have adapted global vision system for our MiroSot system’s fast and dynamic movement. However, considering continues advancement of FIRA robot soccer, we need to research and prepare stand alone fully autonomous robot soccer systems that FIRA can advance with, so we can get closer to satisfy the both condition with smaller trade offs in terms of engineering aspect. That’s what we people of robotics have to do. I expect more of challenging ideas from FIRA people on this matter.
Are you ready to dig it?
please refer to the pictures below for large league playground sample
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